To change Jamaica right now, calls for more than words as evidently that leads to war and are only accepted depending on the colour of your tongue. ONEness – TEAMthought, TEAMwork regardless of colour, creed, religion, gloves is needed for change… They deleted my membership from a facebook group because I went against the grain.. ooo please dont buy them a gun. (SMILE)…I yet we hope move on to greatness ‘together,’ even before the ’90-day’ suspension ends.
Under the name of REAL CHANGE for JAMAICA on facebook a few Jamaicans collect well over 7,000 members for a group. Then they start forum discussions sometimes starting with a post against JLP or pro-PNP.. most times, being a ‘watch dog’ group. You should participate, BUT be careful as posts that oppose ‘their’ way of thinking — I declare that it seems that thinking is that the PNP, their only shepherd, is faultless — ARE LIKELY TO BE DELETED.
In my experience, they actually delete your posts and eventually your membership… WOW… even one’s friendship (MINE) with the moderator gets cut. Interesting how many other persons have shared similar experiences though once I highlighted my own on my Facebook wall. Pro-JLP points being deleted seconds after posted as if the work of real watch dogs, and although the moderator claims he is the only with rights to delete, OOPS he says he never deleted any of mine. Go Figure? Imagine ‘computer and facebook glitches’, as they now claim so strategic to have deleted postings at only those appointed pro JLP posting moments.
JUST THINK we still have die-hard political party supporters, and now die-hard ‘computers and technology’ with minds of their own, with no balance whatsoever in Jamaica. With all that passion, and heated blood I can only wonder what would do if forum co-ordinators/supporters were to have a weapon in hand, at the moment were to physically interact with the ‘disagreeing minds’!!!
I was abused in multiple ways even threatened with physical harm, deleted and cut off with disdain for my stand in multiple discussion forums on ‘real change for Jamaica’. (see some comments below)
MY CRIME both ‘legally and illegally’ — I called for a fair break for both parties, and dared to point out the deed of PNP in 18 years in the Dudus saga that so many spend precious time to debate on, and literally with Bruce and JLP as main subjects, even given recent events. Simply because this is what most debates boil down to – crime, crime and more crime and which party outdid the other.
UNITY TO PROGRESS
Seriously Jamaicans, there is need to reason together… crime is crime.. what maybe should be important is the root and how to kill that fertilised soil long before we speak of cutting extended branch(es).
To date I declare for the record NO loyalty to either JLP or PNP, yet a love for both. I have loyalty to the Jamaican people being a human being. FOR ONE, observing precedent in first world countries where we strive to be in at least status, I realise that we as Jamaicans simply are not ready for loyalty to any one party.
I’ve witnessed what taking a true die-hard stand looks like — two US-born citizens – a man and his wife of over 40 years sleeping in separate beds at election time… can it be worse than that? Well it is among Jamaicans. The Americans didn’t go extreme when you consider what we’ve done — We go beyond die-hard!
As luck would have it, it’s just in a facebook forum for, ironically, ‘Real Change For Jamaica’ labelled group the bands broke and loosened hellish word war when I suggested they rename the group as ‘PNP support Real Change For Jamaica.’ After all comments pro JLP if even slightest were being deleted. I was also further accused of being libelous.
Repeatedly attacked, sometimes somewhat brutally, I held my ground, even as I reacted. Interesting enough I alone got banned and for a total 90 days – although see for yourself the tamest of the lot of ‘aggressors’.
Jamaicans would seem to not understand politics, and most times discussions wind up being around who has the most criminal background as a yardstick on who to chose as leader. A secret flirt with donmanship over the garrison called Jamaica.
IT WONT CHANGE reality.. The same way these minds criticise Bruce, Jamaica Labour Party (JLP), and Dudus… for recent drama productions, and the Seaga regime of so loooong ago, I will ask::::
“HOW COMES for 18 years.. the People’s National Party (PNP) allowed so much and now come to be ‘good’ shepherds in-the-making. Are we to hate crime when green and support it when orange?”
WHAT ARE WE dOING arguing so cruelly against each other — in a forum supposedly for real change for Jamaica.
When we argue, let’s do so with balance in point.
DOWN TO THE WIRE
I was told I am attacking persons.. my comments got seriously killed.. and I struggled to keep posting… Moderator Trevor H Francis then says I called him a liar after I asked him how comes he offers no explanation about the deletions of my posts, but can offer the same to one other woman, also complaining of deletions, although tamer. He also killed my friendship with him. OOPS!!!
Lorna P. Black called me stupid and then above all, even my OAaSIS got attacked by a so called friend – Richard Hugh Blackford who dragged my ‘far from politics’ foundation through their torture. TAKE NOTE All these persons are still in the group.. not banned.
After being banned, I followed closely and reacted on my wall. Several persons came and replied and encouraged me by email, inbox and on my wall, and yes in that forum. They convinced me that with a little encouragement and a few brave souls keeping it real, change and a desire for change can be infectious. BRAVERY is definately infectious.
For those sending private messages, and who posted on my wall – … Thanks for your support THANK GOD there is hope for change – real change.. BUT I hope you come out and be bold in this REAL CHANGE FOR JAMAICA forum… with your thoughts. SHOW balance.. show others that JAMAICA MATTERS you!!! Down with bullying!!! Sometimes we must disagree to agree, and agree to disagree… Be done already with our culture to be aggressive and overly so!!!
WHAT ARE WE DOING AS A PEOPLE…
AFTER BEING LITERALLY ATTACKED and TOLD TO LEAVE, even after I offered apologies with due respect to it being HIS group — here’s what the moderator said. It gets interesting with time and added comments by others who built their arguments after I was kicked out! POOR US!
Trevor H. Francis
Anthea McGibbon, you were warned several hours ago about your disruptive behaviour. I also informed you that I did not delete any of your posts but by your insistence that I am deleting your posts, you are essentially calling me a liar. I see that despite being warned, you have persisted on your path of disrupting this forum, saying it should be renamed “PNP supporters for REAL CHANGE for Jamaica” and you have been personally attacking your fellow RCFJ members. You are hereby BANNED for 90 days [as at October 8, 2011] from RCFJ Forum.
SOME REACTIONS (in no particular order):
WE’ll see in 90 days… YET!!! as even he, Trevor Francis as moderator, removed his friendship from me, my abusers remain – some with no reprimand whatsoever… Interesting step to change for Jamaica —
For now.. its comforting to read further discussions in that same forum, and on my wall.. CHANGE has begun.. more persons excercising their God-given freedom of speech, freedom to choose, freedom to live! Glad they are allowed to if nothing else came from the events.
Lynval H. Hall
Lynval H. Hall ?@Anthea McGibbon…this forum is nothing more than a propoganda machine for the pnp. If you are not speaking ‘orange’ you are a supporter of the jlp, and will be slaughtered by these old party fanatics who believe the pnp is of no faults.
?@Anthea McGibbon you are trying to hold an objective and intelligent debate with desperate political fanatics that are using this medium as an electioneering machinery. moreso, since Holness seems to becomes an headache for them. and the golding/dudus affairs ‘tractions’ are becomming less of an election talking point. I dont care who next is extradited or implicated in the Dudus affairs. I need to hear substantial reasoning about jamaicas future. whether it is comming from the pnp or the jlp. Trying to use the Dudus affairs to paint the jlp as being the ‘evil’ party of jamaica. may resonates in the head of party supporters who has already made up their minds about voting for ‘their party’. well thinking jamaicans are craving for ‘effective’ policies to move jamaica forward. The pnp is yet to present any convincing alternatives, other than expecting the current government to fail, and still playing the same old kind of ‘contankerous’ divisive politics that has rend the country into two ‘tribalized’ political factions. Neither parties has no omral authority to even criticising each other. Hence, they should be seriously contemplating to form a national unity government with youg green fresh and intelligent jamaicans and members of both parties for the sake of jamaica, instead of fighting their way back …much older, same old attitude, fixed in their partisian ways, corrupt and incompetent. Jamaica doesnt belongs to them, and we have that right to tell them that enough is enough, take an hike now and give jamaica and its people a chance.
I have been surfing the posts and comments and I think it was unbelievable that Anthea was taken out of the group when the members with such horrendous posts have not been taken out. I did not see that she did or said anything that should warrant her being expelled. Afterall arent we supposed to be openminded and tolerant of all opinions expressed as long as its not obscene and vulgar.
Krishna Singh Reynolds
i really wish you wouldnt paint us all with the same brush, it is unworthy of your intellect and it severely detracts from communicating your ideas.
people whom you are trying to convince, generally do not appreciate the argument being shoved down their throat, and the art of communication requires persuasion rather than force.
to accuse a group of being pro this or that based on your reaction to opinions that do not suit you is more of an indication of your blinkers, than that of the group as a whole.
it seems to me that in a public and physical space, decency and courtesy would prevent you from behaving in this manner.
although digital, this is in every way a public space…
please, mind your manners.
Lorna P. Black
Anthea, you are just plain stupid!!
Richard Hugh Blackford
I addressed this same issue to her hours earlier Krishna Singh Reynolds and she deliberately chose an interpretation that would obviously satisfy the agenda she was on. I need no one to attempt to label me politically. My sympathies are at this time with the Peoples National Party and i am not afraid to admit that. That nothithstanding, my views are my own, influenced by my upbringing, my education and experiences. I value the democratic process and most importantly, peoples right to freedom of speech. However, with that freedom comes the right to respect others space and views, even if the views do not comport with your own.
I will engage anyone in discussion/debate but that must be conducted with respect and based on fact. Anthea seemed to have lost the ability to grasp that.
Lorna P. Black
I agree with Trevor’s actions. Anthea does not even know me or my political persuasion and yet she accuses me of being a PNPite hating what she posts, just because I commented on her rantings which are not contributing to any viable discourse. smh
You went to a PNP chat room and did not know it was PNP oriented??? What the hell you smoking?
Yolande Gyles Levy
Sorry Anthea but I have no time or energy fi watch fakers. I said yesterday and I will always say it – die hard labourites and die hard comrades are not die hard Jamaicans and I want nothing to do with them. They’ve both raped, robbed and run this country to ruin and
Dont waste your time in forums where people only agree with their own thoughts.
While I do not comment often, I feel the need to say that just because someone writes something which offends others is no reason for censorship. Furthermore, I believe what Anthea was trying to say is that she feels this forum is all about PNP and wants a fair and balanced discussion. I personally see disrespect coming from just about everyone who is posting. People tend to take things to heart when strong emotions play a major role in what is being written.
I also believe when people start writing in caps it is a sign of frustration and/or anger that they are not being heard.
Trevor H. Francis
?Beril Miller: Since you “have been surfing the posts and comments” did you also see where even after I said, at least twice, to you and Anthea, that I did not delete any posts on this forum, she continued to accuse me of deleting her posts, and even warned you about me deleting your posts? Is that not labeling me a liar? How is that furthering the discourse? Are you saying you did not find her posts to be disruptive and some constituting personal attacks on her fellow RCFJ members? Do you agree with her suggestion that this forum should be renamed: “PNP supporters for REAL CHANGE for Jamaica?”
Wow! I must have missed a lot because based on the posts still remaining, I see no reason for Anthea to be banned. I do see Lorna calling her stupid and referring to her posts as rants and that should not be encouraged. As is the entreatment to leave if you don’t like this or that. Anybody can leave. Also, the 90-day ban is really draconian in any event. I believe when ppl “err” they should first be pointed to the particular section/rule they contravene before any action taken against them. Like I said, I must have missed what happened but I have to say I don’t like what I see. We would be one insular set if we all came singing the same sankey. I must say though that I certainly appreciate the effort at keeping some modicum of order in this forum but I am just saying Order should not amount to censure and we have to agree to disagree
Dorrett R Campbell
Anthea I was fighting very hard to keep away from much of the political discourse that you initiated because I find that with all good intentions, they seem to descend into shallow bickering (not your fault entirely). However, forgive me for chiming in to point out that I have seen a plethora of posts by you et al which are pro JLP and anti PNP and some pro Holness and find it quite intriguing that you should now accuse the forum of promoting “pnp.. and does not allow much freedom… to speak and instigate balance for both parties…”
I am hoping that I will see you on this forum after the silly season has expired and can then engage you in some solid discourse of which I am convinced you are capable of handling…
Anthea M. do not allow others to rile you in this manner (now look who is talking). Trevor H. F, I think I see what sparked your action (still not saying its right), However, I am asking that in the interest of goodwill here, you reconsider the 90-day ban. I still think its harsh. Maybe a warning especially since she was called unpleasant names. Damian Ukeith Royes Andrew Holness maybe the best thing right now but I personally do not like his management style hence his treatment of those in the education sector especially teachers. I truly want the teachers to teach him a real lesson in use of power. But then teachers on a whole have long given up their right to better treatment. To be truthful I have dilemma for although I want teachers to fix Andrew I look at what that would cause and there is MOU man who I don’t wan to see EVER again in Gordon House. Also there is Ronnie T whose antiquated philosophy sucks not to mention Finsac man who I see as equally abusive to teachers (he personally caused me to leave the profession). I truly wish we had a viable 3rd party. Bottom lin eis though, i want mama P to kick Andrew’s butt but she needs to be rid of those dinosaurs whose presence in Gordon House turns it into Jurassic Park. What’s my take as regards who forms the govt? For me it’s no better herring, no better barrel so it matters none
Dorrett R Campbell
BTW Anthea I did check your wall to see what people have to say about RCFJ and observed that you seemed to have launched a campaign against the forum. Regrettably you did seem to be a lone voice crying in the wilderness because I did not see that many followers. Five posts, three of which were yours? 24 posts, 19 of which were yours? Three from a former member who is still nursing a grudge against the founder and two from your usual followers? tut tut
It seems you get much more attention here than you get on your own wall
Lorna P. Black
What is wrong with Anthea? I am reading several threads and she is just spouting the same venom and nonsense on all. My goodness lady…stick to the rules and comport yourself in an appropriate manner!!
Richard Hugh Blackford
I’m glad that someone else shares my observation. What is disturbing (for me) about her conduct Lorna P. Black, is that she heads up a foundation based in Jamaica that seeks the support of a broad cross section of Jamaicans there and in the Diaspora. I am of the view that this type of display does not provide much of a positive example for young Jamaicans to follow, nor the type of comfort to potential benefactors of said foundation.
Richard Hugh Blackford
Just for the record Anthea, I have known you for a couple of years now and the experiences I had working and interacting with you has always been positive. When you covered my early Art exhibitions in Jamaica you were extremely professional was very instrumental in ensuring that the media coverage I eceived from not only the Gleaner features dept but also the Jmaica Observer was first class. I admire your strident support for the JLP but had cautioned your approach as I sawan inclination to become a bit overzealous and disrespectful in the process.
Anthea I am aware of your tireless work for the OASIS Foundation which benefits a lot of children n the St. Catherine parish and in all probability, I do feel that you may just have been having one of those days. I hope that you will review today’s episode and draw from it the lessons that will only serve to enrich not only your online experiences but your relationship with all of us on RCFJ.
?@Phillip I know you were addressing Anthea but may I just ask one question, What exactly does Trevor stand for? While I have excused myself from the group based on the direction where it was heading, from time to time since it has become an open forum, I drop in and view some of the posts and comments, as there are some people who do have the interest of Jamaica at heart. In my humble opinion the forum has become a BIASED,KISS ASS, excuse for a forum. I read the comments Anthea made, and also the comments made to her by others, some of which were down right rude, yet she was BANNED and the others remained. If one wants change for JAMAICA it cannot be about ORANGE and GREEN, it has to be about the PEOPLE. We all have different opinions, and should not be made to feel like OUTCASTS if we do not agree with the majority. Dictatorship will not get us anywhere. Based on where the Forum is heading, it does seem that it is indeed a platform for the PNP, if we honestly care about making a CHANGE or CHANGES in JAMAICA then we have to go beyond the JLP and the PNP. Maybe you should have a good talk with Trevor about HIS ATTITUDE.
Trevor H. Francis
Lynval H. Hall, maybe you did not understand what I meant when I stated above that she started her anti-RCFJ campaign on her FB Page before she was banned from RCFJ, and I have a feeling that her actions today were planned. By that I mean it had nothing to do with her being an “open-minded independent person” and everything to do with a planned disruption of this forum. You are too new to RCFJ to know what I know about the possible motives behind her actions today.
FUNNY I am being accused of planning disruption, having an agenda simply because I wont be muffled from sharing my opinion which clearly others share. Aw Trevor.. brings out the real you…even after I apologised!! You still instigate war…with your words.. I hope people see through your words…No love lost for anyone. Thanks for your forum… Dont know why you killed our friendship, but I am here for you through meaty and mawgah. Interesting how you and others claim there were warnings… I didnt see… but yet hardly any warnings to anyone else.. and most definitely hours later… esp to the ones who threaten to knock me in my head and refer to me as stupid. TAKE A GRIP! Freedom for speech, voice, life, opinion and do I say choose. I choose humanity.. Jamaican way…
My wall and site is there for ANYONE to chime their bell however small!
Nuh true Lynval H. Hall, wouldn’t want to be a first time offender in her court house! I smell lethal injection for running a red light..LOL Dorrett R Campbell, I don’t know Anthea from adams, I just sat on my computer and red all the posts for today and felt sorry for her, and when I saw she was making everybody mad, I became curious and went to read her page! A nuh mi frn man, mi woulda konch her inna her head and bring her back to reality long time…I just feel sorry for her, because something tells me its passion that went wrong and especially since I read on her page that she will be coming back after her sentence is up! This means she really wants to be back!!
to sit around and chat and throw big words,, does nothing for Jamaica and its heep a problems !!!! Anthea McGibbon pls continue STAND FOR WHAT YOU BELIEVE IN……the truth !!!
Anthea I STAND with you, and I trust and pray that you will find the courage to start a democratic forum around here NOW!!!
When I joined I was under the impression that it was about doing something positive for Jamaica. I had no idea it was a partisan group. I say that as one who thinks Michael Manley was one of our most brilliant and sincere leaders. I have no party afilliation. I call it the way I see it. I thought the idea was to start a program in the schools, do something with health care etc. The “leadership”, in my opinion, was just interested in talking, getting publicity, playing petty dictator and taking bows. There is an agenda that, in my opinion, is no bigger than personal promotion and ambition.
_________________________… and on SUNDAY still and yet…
more word war on Anthea…
Trevor and I have had our fights on this forum but I am really shocked by the attacks on him. Yesterday several of my posts were deleted. I did not come out publicly in an effort to attack Trevor and create drama. I sent him an inbox. We certainly can get more done by being courteous to Trevor H. Francis who is not perfect but did a great service by forming this forum. See our exchange on the deletions.
* Trevor, My posts are being deleted. Do you know why. Is there a glitch
Trevor H. Francis
Trevor H. Francis
* I have not deleted any posts whatsoever so it must be Facebook.
* I never thought you did because I have been following the rules. LOL. Life I guess
Krishna Singh Reynolds
reading all of this to-ing and fro-ing about rights got me to thinking that this illustrates the real source of jamaica’s problems.
1. we cannot debate without the
2. somehow, we who speak actual english are expected to dumb down our language, opinions, speech for the benefit of those who perpetually appear to be travelling in the small yellow bus and seem to have no desire to elevate… other than materially.
3. there is no time that some people seem willing to accept that they MAY have done wrong, let alone actually doing wrong. this suggests that there are a number of highly spiritual beings here and it may be the wrong place…
4. all the talk is about rights… who’s entitled to what.
5. when responsibility does come up (and the natural consequences that flow from one’s actions are to happen).. there is always that argument that essentially says… s/he may be guilty.. but give her a bligh.. s/he is just stressed.. so there is no sense of responsibility either… it is always the fault of some external thing… before which we are helpless..
6. in all of this, i hear the same thing from both sides. but….
there is a gaping difference between both sides as far as the issues go.
the pnp are being brought to task for local POLITICAL actions during their 18.5 years.
The issue around the jlp is about international CRIMINAL actions during their 4.5 years and there is a world of difference between both.
people in the pnp react to the trafigura issue the same was as jlp people react to the dudus matter for good reason; because any logical and intelligent reading of both issues would tell you that both matters are only apparently alike and that is because they speak to government corruption. but again, there is a marginal difference between political and criminal corruption at the national level.
in the trafigura case there were immediate repercussions(ministerial resignation etc) as well as delayed ones in the 2007 elections.
in the dudus case, the sitting pm (now resigned- but still sitting) is yet to be (publicly) informed if he is to be indicted for criminal activity linked to dudus. in a foreign country.
i doubt any member of the pnp have lost their visas at any time except when manley turfed out the us ambassador in the 70’s….
now, as far as anyone can recall, the leader of the opposition has never been implicated in nary a whisper.
yet we thinking, self-aware, patriotic jamaicans must discard reason so that we can view all political actions as exactly the same… as if we are not parents and entrepreneurs and administrators, and bosses and workers….. and we somehow can’t figure out the runnings… please.
the ex-minister of justice and attorney general who was made QC for expediency (just as sally porteus was hastily made a jp hours before being touted as the new custos for manchester) refused to accept settled law from all the jamaican courts of appeals (including the privy council) and attempted to suggest – in open court and on live tv – that it was the intention of parliament that only the commissioner of police (in person!!!!) could legally make, listen and distribute wiretap material.
what should we make of an action by a pm that deliberately places the least qualified person in a position over which he has no constitutional authority; yet still manages to successfully threathen the officeholder in parliament with dismissal if she were to do her job according to LAW….
<<< how should we think of the jlp and its supporters who attempt to portray these actions by the pm, as nothing more serious than a foreign company giving J$ 30mil to the finance person of the pnp, a fairly senior minister as was the case in the trafigura. >>>
it was the pm (a man praised by qc kd knight, for his layman’s grasp of the law which was so much more finetuned than many successful lawyers he knew), who staked his political future on the spurious and really childish, last-gasp “constitutional issue”.
only a criminal mind would think and then publicly advance the theory that the “wiretap” law could not legally override the constitutional right to privacy, which supposedly allowed anyone to privately conduct criminal communications over public air waves licensed by the govt to telecom providers.. and many of these crimes were committed against the same public owners of the airwaves.
similarly, only a criminal mind would defend those actions as well-meaning and for the national good when the lives and fortunes of 3 million jamaicans (and millions abroad) are put in jeopardy for the benefit of a man who later pleads guilty by saying he really is guilty.
have we ever seen a previous party or government sink to those depths?
should we remain silent for fear of being labeled so and so by persons who have their financial futures tied to this sort of thing?
well… what about me and my right to bun fiah pon dem ting deh?
nuh don nuh rule i..
Ok good. What purpose does it serve for us as individuals to be going back and forth about who did what? We need to build a better and brighter Jamaica from this day forth would you agree?
SO— from ANTHEA
Dorrett Campbell and Pumps-Carel Boreland-Watkins
How sad when we deem every apology as admitting to a wrong rather than apology for ‘being an offence.’ How interesting your views on TREVOR’s actions as moderator after I apologised to him…. BOTTOM LINE: I seriously am still looking for the so called warnings he claimed to have given to me, while wondering why those with worse actions are still conducting a torture chamber today – only in my absence. BOTTOM LINE — its his forum. BOTTOM LINE 2 My motto– may your good be not ill spoken of. BOTTOM LINE 3 TRUST me.. some of you people critically snobbish, and need to GET over YOURSELVES!!! STOP your insanity… you’re making me toooooo important!!! seriously…focus on Jamaica where JahMEKyah!!!
____________________________and on MONDAY — hope in group!
Kadian Vickers ON MONDAY
It is as if you are speaking from my very heart Anthea McGibbon… I for one have always thought that our people will never truly experience the true worth of this country until we come to understand how to cross the divide and meet on what is effectually important.
__________________________________TUESDAY drama restarts
Inbox message from ‘abusers’ to remove their names from my wall yet…
Yes Dorrett and if you noticed, that *variable* was part of my salient point. On top of that *variable*, I gave ample empirical evidence by stating that as the *first* and *longest member* of RCFJ, I know of members who joined RCFJ in its first few days of launching who are just now being vocal and who may unfairly be among the members you included as *the basis* for your conclusion about the results.
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